tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post114780040715473007..comments2023-04-27T11:58:37.175+01:00Comments on The Fluffy Economist: Constructing new menSimon Hodgeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00045940364682507474noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1152021472777900552006-07-04T14:57:00.000+01:002006-07-04T14:57:00.000+01:00FistIt's power lies in its promised ability to mea...Fist<BR/><BR/><I>It's power lies in its promised ability to measure and forecast events and their consequences in easy to understand quantities. </I><BR/><BR/>In this particular instance, I think the power of economics is to recognize the costs of subsidising production, and to allow policymakers to see the consequences of continuing down that track.<BR/><BR/><I>The lack of self-esteem created byMatt Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10256353079960538374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1151753576139760472006-07-01T12:32:00.000+01:002006-07-01T12:32:00.000+01:00Matt,I think what you said about measuring the cos...Matt,<BR/>I think what you said about measuring the costs of closures was revealing. Economics is the focus of this discussion because it exerts a force greater than any other social science on public policy; it's myths and errors are therefore of greater consequence and concern than other disciplines.<BR/><BR/>It's power lies in its promised ability to measure and forecast events and their Simon Hodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045940364682507474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1151703856992076322006-06-30T22:44:00.000+01:002006-06-30T22:44:00.000+01:00AndrewThanks for the response - pretty good in vie...Andrew<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the response - pretty good in view of a major distraction. Go England tomorrow.<BR/><BR/>I think I can see how the eonomically rational unit comes into the analysis. If you are right that policymakers had an economic monster in their minds when closing the mines, and acted according to that, then they are obviously misguided. Economics fully recognises the sorts of Matt Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10256353079960538374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1151419041932309412006-06-27T15:37:00.000+01:002006-06-27T15:37:00.000+01:00Not to get into the closing of the coal mines, my ...Not to get into the closing of the coal mines, my point being that the advice given to the redundant was as if they were economically rational labour units rather than rounded human beings with attachments to people and place, but I will ;-):<BR/><BR/>I understand that the closing of the coal mines resulted in a rise in the price of coal on the international market. The vast British supply had AndyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750253755036359481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1151389373579751092006-06-27T07:22:00.000+01:002006-06-27T07:22:00.000+01:00AndrewI can see what you're saying now, but I thin...Andrew<BR/><BR/>I can see what you're saying now, but I think there is a fine line between rejecting models and rejecting their application in the real world, since a model has no use if it is seriously inconsistent with the real world.<BR/><BR/>But my main concern with what you wrote stems from the example you gave of South Yorkshire. It does not take a narrow world view or a rigid belief in a Matt Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10256353079960538374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1151187916399062022006-06-24T23:25:00.000+01:002006-06-24T23:25:00.000+01:00Just to be clear: this is not a bash at economists...Just to be clear: this is not a bash at economists. This is a bash at politicians who embrace liberal economic political models without an understanding of the limits of enquiry.<BR/><BR/>It amuses me, for example, when people knock sociologists, as the most familiar complaint is that they have missed the influence of X, Y or Z, all of which lie beyond the scope of sociological enquiry. What AndyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750253755036359481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1151186906378491612006-06-24T23:08:00.000+01:002006-06-24T23:08:00.000+01:00No, I am not saying that these models are not usef...No, I am not saying that these models are not useful. What I am saying is that these models are used by liberal ecnomic politicians the wrong way round. By this I mean many features of liberal economic policies, such as the marketisation - under the banner of 'choice' - of services and a belief in the fluidity of labour (between occupations and locations) is about taking the rational actor AndyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750253755036359481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1151059690669986342006-06-23T11:48:00.000+01:002006-06-23T11:48:00.000+01:00AndrewAnother comment. Homo economicus, the monste...Andrew<BR/><BR/>Another comment. <BR/><BR/><I>Homo economicus, the monster-man who lives only by a calculation of personal material interests</I><BR/><BR/>This is a fundamental mistake. The unit of analysis in microeconomics is utility, which includes non-material considerations.<BR/><BR/>More generally, the homo economicus argument is just a dressed-up way of saying you don't believe in Matt Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10256353079960538374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1150710396607780642006-06-19T10:46:00.000+01:002006-06-19T10:46:00.000+01:00I've just realized how late my post is. Apologies....I've just realized how late my post is. Apologies. I haven't visited fluffy in a while.Matt Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10256353079960538374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1150710026445758362006-06-19T10:40:00.000+01:002006-06-19T10:40:00.000+01:00Possessed by this belief, and possessing great pow...<I>Possessed by this belief, and possessing great power over the organisation of our society, this group of fantasists have, through human action, made their legends real.</I><BR/><BR/>How exactly does the capitalist, who believes in the rule of law, private property, and decentalised decision-making act on behalf of others in making these legends real, as you put it? Is it not socialists who Matt Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10256353079960538374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1148049744157164092006-05-19T15:42:00.000+01:002006-05-19T15:42:00.000+01:00Bear in mind I took the test in the midst of revis...Bear in mind I took the test in the midst of revising for an econometrics exam, hence the disillusion with a system that spawned such an evil discipline. <BR/><BR/>I think pragmatic Left Libertarian adequately sums up my ideology.<BR/><BR/>Sonia, you are sweet.Simon Hodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045940364682507474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1148047533544588372006-05-19T15:05:00.000+01:002006-05-19T15:05:00.000+01:00Hey this is looking good! you guys are doing a goo...Hey this is looking good! you guys are doing a good job with the group blog thingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147975976576293142006-05-18T19:12:00.000+01:002006-05-18T19:12:00.000+01:00Kinky for Governor!? I liked the political compass...Kinky for Governor!? <BR/><BR/><BR/>I liked the political compass. I scored a 4.88/ 2.0, which is a bit more authoritative than I'd imagine. <BR/><BR/>You seem to land where Trotsky might be.Zekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15371919614648908324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147969369494580982006-05-18T17:22:00.000+01:002006-05-18T17:22:00.000+01:00"Institutional" stuff is my favourite, too, howeve..."Institutional" stuff is my favourite, too, however. Though from what I read, that is now very much <I>homo economicus</I> and mathematical models, too.<BR/><BR/>My (very short) academic career totalled:<BR/>1. teaching lots of students who had no wish, and little ability, to learn<BR/>2. one discussion paper that used a bit of econometrics to study UK electricity privatisation in the style of Jarndycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00905872951940547045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147969119839697512006-05-18T17:18:00.000+01:002006-05-18T17:18:00.000+01:00Well, if you're clever enough to do a Ph.D. using ...Well, if you're clever enough to do a Ph.D. using bounded rationality models in economics, when most of the rest of us struggle to just-about-understand the *conclusion* to those papers, then you're *also* clever enough to know that how a few (or lots of) muppets choose to use theories (incorrectly) has *no* bearing on their worth. IMHO, <I>homo economicus</I> in all his utility-maximizing glory Jarndycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00905872951940547045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147879302858065452006-05-17T16:21:00.000+01:002006-05-17T16:21:00.000+01:00Jarndyce,I recently had a meeting with the head of...Jarndyce,<BR/>I recently had a meeting with the head of postgrduate economics at Edinb urgh to see if I wanted to do a PhD with them. I asked if there was anything in an institutional vein and he had to ask me what it was. When I turned to bounded rationality he explained that its too bulky and complicated and gets in the way of clear predictions. It doesn't matter that the basis of these Simon Hodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045940364682507474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147877847055348292006-05-17T15:57:00.000+01:002006-05-17T15:57:00.000+01:00On the topic, though... I agree that homo economic...On the topic, though... I agree that <I>homo economicus</I> as a foundational theory is a bit extreme, to say the least. But it can't be totally wrong. How else to explain away the fact that, with some judicious additions (bounded rationality, imperfect information, multiperiod games, etc.), theories using it make predictions that turn out to be accurate.Jarndycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00905872951940547045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147859239892395152006-05-17T10:47:00.000+01:002006-05-17T10:47:00.000+01:00How about Kinky Friedman?http://www.kinkyfriedman....How about Kinky Friedman?<BR/><BR/>http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/AndyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750253755036359481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147857854044120212006-05-17T10:24:00.000+01:002006-05-17T10:24:00.000+01:00LOL! He's certianly seems an amiable sort but is d...LOL! He's certianly seems an amiable sort but is discounted because it's spelt Friedman. Any others?Simon Hodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045940364682507474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147857259987887572006-05-17T10:14:00.000+01:002006-05-17T10:14:00.000+01:00Dougie Friedman, Crystal Palace and Scotland strik...Dougie Friedman, Crystal Palace and Scotland striker. Crap footballer, though.Jarndycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00905872951940547045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18230118.post-1147801599265896092006-05-16T18:46:00.000+01:002006-05-16T18:46:00.000+01:00Are there any nice people called Friedman?Are there <I>any</I> nice people called Friedman?Simon Hodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045940364682507474noreply@blogger.com